T-Rex with long/lizard lips? Seriously?

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Crocodiles:


Noticed a recent post by a guy studying vertebrate paleontology in Toronto. But I can tell by comparing T-Rex to monitor lizards, who are more closely related to mosasaurs than dinosaurs, he is surely unable to convince me that the critter had lizard lips, which I think only small theropods like Velociraptor or Deinonychus have. So I turned to birds and crocodiles, closest living relatives to dinosaurs, as counter evidence for the arguments made by the Canadian paleontologists. Notice the serrated beak on the toucan, the teeth (or pseudoteet) found on geese and other waterfowl, and the features of crocodilian mouths, who have water to hydrate their teeth. Now I would say that Tyrannosaurus would have teeth designed to crush bone (max bite force about 12,800 pounds) and therefore mean they are not as weak the teeth of modern land predators such as cats, dogs, bears, hyenas, or wolves. And here we can see that the skulls of T-Rex, the crocodile, and Triassic land archosaurs allow to see an animal showing off its mouth with the lower half of the teeth being exposed and the other half covered in "croc-lips". The paper from Toronto may just be speculation. T. rex must have had lips of some kind as it shows foramina (and the nerves and veins that "feed" lips come from those holes).




And perhaps the T-Rex, just to keep its exposed teeth fresh, would drool out saliva like a Komodo Dragon (minus the venom, mind you), even though the two are not closely related to one another. So its likely that Tyrannosaurus, and possibly other large-sized land theropods, had these features.

I mean seriously, some scientists these days secretly watch too much kid shows and we have T-Rex having lips and looking like a grizzly bear. Then we have a smaller number of scientists who wish to bring back the outdated 1950's reconstructions of T-rex as a lizard-lipped, tail-dragging, roarless, hissing iguana, which is obviously ridiculous. I promise you guys that Tyrannosaurus has NO DIRECT EVIDENCE of lizard-lips or fleshy lips that conceal the upper teeth. Its obvious that only the lower parts of the upper teeth were exposed and they still get the saliva needed. Alos, I bet T-Rex regrew teeth like a shark. Sure, Tyrannosaurus may have had lips of some kind, but not in the way that the upcoming game Saurian or its supporters depict them. I don't mind if Tyrannosaurus had scales or feathers or both, but the long lips idea is just ridiculous. Its like trying to say that the T-Rex from 1933's King Kong (as in a lizard-lipped, tail-dragging, overgrown gila monster) is more accurate than 1993's Jurassic Park (towering, terrifying, predatory, fast-running animal), but I admit that JP was kinda wrong with T-Rex's vision. I think that like JP's T-Rex, the real T-Rex had short lips and probably still had saliva to keep even the exposed lower parts of its upper teeth moist. 

A good friend of mine added these quotes: 

"Sure: if T. rex had such long lips (the lower lips would have to look kind like these www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD8AIl…), they would probably caugh the attention of rivals sometimes during fights (as it would be a very soft and vulnerable part of the smout) and rivals would probably try to bite the lips off and we would probably find big, long, clear tooth marks (like these upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia…) all along the dentary and maybe on part of the maxilla and not only far from them, on the top of the snouts."

"I took a look at Reiz's claims. I found a great diamond: "The hard enamel of animals' teeth has low water content, and is typically kept hydrated by saliva. Without lips to keep moisture in and prevent the teeth from drying out, the tough enamel would become brittle and more prone to damage and wear, Reisz told Live Science." by this pseudo scientific logic (if enamel would become brittle then why do rocks, that are made of minerals just like enamel, do not get brittle?), T. rex could keep it's teeth hidrated after killing (blood on the teeth) and by drinking water. If you ask "what about other components of blood?", crocodiles swim on dirty waters (with the ones in swamps being of a higher level on this)."


:icontemplar-dragonknight:
Just have in mind that presence of lips does not necessarily mean covered teeth. After all most theropods, like T. rex itself, had foramina (and the nerves and veins that "feed" lips of any type and size come from there).


I do not hate modern science. I am simply stating that Tyrannosaurus had no need for lips such as this. I believe you may need to compare the skulls of a lizard with a T-Rex. 

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/7…

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/5…

Now Tyrannosaurus's upper teeth are covering the teeth of the lower jaw and the lower halves of those upper teeth are longer. Then look at the lizard skull and notice that this is not the same case as we see in the T-Rex. We can conclude that Tyrannosaurus's upper teeth will have the lower half of their upper teeths exposed. Also notices that reptiles regrow their teeth throughout their lives (alligators, for example: www.usnews.com/news/articles/2…). Notice also that birds, who are closely related to dinosaurs, have beaks instead of lips. We can therefore conclude that Tyrannosaurus or any other large theropod would have no need for lips as their teeth would regrow throughout their life time. Of course, Komodo Dragons have upper teeth that cover the lower teeth of the lower jaw and yet have lips, but again, they are not closely related to dinosaurs and thus its inaccurate to give large theropods lizard lips.

Its possible that Tyrannosaurus had lips, but they wouldn't be covering the teeth completely. That is what mean by "lipless". Some people overreact and take it too literally (hunterstrait.deviantart.com/ar…).

Now if Reisz really were to use lizards (members of the Squamata) to dinosaurs (members of the archosaurs), then we wouldn't expect evidence of dinosaurs with bird-like nesting behavior (
www.livescience.com/52920-dino…) or even evidence of feathered dinosaurs such as Microraptor (upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia…). But we actually do, and therefore we have more evidence for dinosaurs as bird-like and little to no evidence that they were lizard-like. It would have made more sense if Reisz compared the mouths of mosasaurs to lizards, but alas, we do not see him comparing them to the distantly related dinosaurs, who served as ancestors to birds.

The new game Saurian claims it is 100% scientifically accurate, but their view of T-Rex's lips (aka Grizzly Rex: coubsecure-a.akamaihd.net/get/…) does not match up to what the skull of the actual animal suggests (img11.deviantart.net/5315/i/20…) and we should therefore get more like this: orig04.deviantart.net/0f02/f/2… (art done by Gonzalezaurus).

Sooner or later, as more people come to accept the lipped Grizzly bear T. Rex nonsense, they will replace Darwinian evolution, which there is strong evidence for, with Lamarkianism, as in evolution without extinction, which is backward thinking because we have numerous records of extinction events, therefore proving Darwinism right! Tyrannosaurus had no need for lizard/fleshy lips and anyine who says otherwise and claim to have scientific authority on the matter is only interested in making the animal look weirder, alien, and ridiculous than when the animal was alive. Its no different than how 19th century science ruined dinosaurs and made them into sluggish, lipped, tail-dragging, slow lizards. Perhaps maybe large theropod dinosaurs had a gene now lost to time that allowed their exposed teeth to withstand the evidence. I remember looking at a video that said that certain genes are lost in the long process of evolution. Maybe when we have the technology to clone dinosaurs, we could search for those lost genes.
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SpinozillaRex's avatar
I don't know, I think theers still good evidence for t.rex having lips. If you look at wild animals today, the only time teeth are ever exposed is when they are used for display (like tufted deer and warthogs). There's really no need for those teeth to be exposed.......